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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  February 15, 2018 11:15pm-11:59pm GMT

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like this, u5 fife: inn” in w" processed foods like this, things like pizza, crisps, chips, are not the things we should be making the main focus of our diet. this study adds to our understanding but not saying anything new and not saying we need to throw the sweets out of cupboard. gorging on huge amounts of processed food will make us fat and being overweight is the biggest preve nta ble being overweight is the biggest preventable cause of cancer, after smoking. for health experts this study is a timely reminder we all need to improve our diets. on average oui’ need to improve our diets. on average our diets are unhealthy in this country. we all on average need to ta ke this country. we all on average need to take steps to improve our diet, so to take steps to improve our diet, so take the results of this study seriously and make changes. the saxton is from doncaster say processed food is a fact of family life. it gets you to think, how can you avoid buying ultra— processed foods unless you grow everything yourself, basically? evenings aren't as difficult as the mornings in terms of breakfast. that is very difficult to rule out cereal and toast on a day—to—day basis when you
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are doing the school run and rushing to get out the door. any dangers lurking in these foods are continuing to be investigated, but eating less obvious and more of this is clearly good for your health. that's a summary of the news. newsday is coming up at midnight. now on bbc news it's time for newsnight. the government calls out russia, blaming the kremlin for a reckless and destructive cyber attack on ukraine which was designed to spread across europe. are we already engaged in a cyber war with russia, and how dangerous could it get? it's deniable, it's semipublic, it includes the publicity. the fact i'm speaking about this right now is probably in the interest of the attacker because it scares people, so if undermining deterrence and it's very difficult to respond to. we'll be debating whether the russian threat is real or imagined. the fbi was warned that nikolas cruz, charged with 17 counts
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i'll be joined by two people, each of whom has a personal close connection with a massacre, one at virginia tech, the other columbine. good evening. russia for a cyber attack, publicly blaming the russian government for spreading a virus which swept across europe lastjune.
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the so—called notpetya attack hit companies, including british ones, after initially targeting ukraine. this unprecedented public accusation against the kremlin by the government also includes the threat of "imposing costs on those who would seek to do us harm." you'll remember that this follows last month's irregular and apparently unsanctioned statement by the defence secretary gavin williamson that a russian cyber attack could cause "thousands and thousands" of deaths by crippling energy supplies. tomorrow, the annual international security conference opens in munich — a conference that theresa may will be addressing — where the kremlin will be on the radar. so is russian cyber warfare now a clear and present danger to us? here's our technology editor, david grossman. conflict on rush—hour's doorstep.
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the war in ukraine is brutal but on the surface, familiar. however, russia is doing battle using other means. ukraine and russia are obviously in a situation that can only be described as war and open conflict and the digital attack, cyber attack component plays a major role. we've seen the boundary, you know, attacking the electric grid in the ukraine. we've seen several major attacks there. we've seen high powered pieces of attack tools that haven't been tested anywhere else. the concern is that ukraine is a test—bed for cyber attacks that and us targets later on. nato defence ministers were in brussels today for a summit, trying to deal with a world where the line between war and peace is so blurred, partly because attacks are deniable. the uk defence minister gavin williamson though today explicitly
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accused the russian government of waging cyber war on the west. it's no longer about the warfare that we'll fight on land, sea and air. increasingly, it's about in cyber and space as well. so nato has to adapt. this raid by ukraine cyber crime unit on a computer company last summer was an attempt to shut down a virus called notpetya. the company was an unwitting host but the virus spread around its clients shutting down companies all over europe including in the uk and it was this attack that the uk has now specifically blamed russia four. it was an attack that destroyed all data on 10% of ukraine's computers. ukraine is a country of a0 million people. 10% of all its computers were damaged. the attack spread extremely quickly,
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globally, probably cost the world economy something beyond £1 billion. it was so bad. just to make it real for people, it affected the production of durex condoms for two weeks, it affected shipping of oreo cookies, it nearly broke down worldwide shipping. it was huge. at the time, many suspected russia but to publicly accuse them of mounting the notpetya attack is, according to observers, a significant development. it seems some sort of statement is being made about this. the cia made a similar statement injanuary and the ukraine did at the time. it's one time to identify the
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russian government as a cyber aggressor, it is another thing to do something about it. it is unclear what the statement today was meant to do, other than set the scene ahead of the conference in brussels, and to send a strong message to russia. however, there have been many similar messages in recent months with no effect. the problem with a threat like this is that it's notjust about protecting computers and networks, but damage is also seen in a country's morale. these can cause a minor harm but they are executed for political effect because they get a significant amount of press coverage and therefore have, if you like, a bit of a terrorising effect. it's an effective psychological tool, it's almost psychological warfare we are looking at here. the ease with which
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a government can use computers to strike its adversaries without warning or reckoning makes the world a more tense place. russia responded to the uk's government's accusation with a predictable denial, the supposedly strong message has been sent and apparently ignored. david grossman there. we did ask to speak to the russian government — they didn't give us anyone to interview, but the russian embassy did say that there was no evidence that they held any responsibility for the notpetya cyber attack, and that the accusations made by the british government were part of a continuing campaign aimed at the stigmatisation of russia. we also asked the british government under the programme but they declined as well. joining me now is dmitry linnik, former head of radio russia's london bureau, edward lucas, journalist and author of the new cold war: putin's threat to russia and the west and, from munich, laura galante, a cyber security expert and senior
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fellow at the atlantic council international affairs thinktank. good evening to you all. if i could begin with you, laura, does russia have the capability to do a lot of cyber damage or a lot of minor harm? we've seen russia undertake a variety of different operations from standard espionage conducted over cyber operations all the way up to critical infrastructure attacks and then the most recent notpetya attack, which focused on the financial sector and then had a lot of externalities, which we have just covered. russia is taking the approach of ratcheting up the types of operations they are willing to undertake in cyberspace and they've had both the technical and psychological component. let's talk about the technical component. what damage can actually do? let's take the ukraine example of the power grid going down in 2015 and again in
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2016. with both of those operations, large parts of the country's power grid went down and black energy, the malware behind this, was traced back to likely the russian military and what's been difficult to see in the west in terms of the capability that russia has here is the lack of 100% certainty around how these tools are deployed. and what we are constantly faced with is this legalistic tendency that we naturally have in the west to want to say, here is the 100% level of factual evidence that leads to this. but cyber doesn't lend itself to that type of analysis. we can look at the evidence, who is likely to benefit from this, what sort of evidence in the malware and the tools is available to explain who's behind it and then what was the effect that it achieved? with the ukrainian power grid attacks, the effect was both psychological in the ukraine and also a warning shot to the west to say that critical infrastructure,
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this is something that will be thank you very much there. dmitri, if it wasn't russia, who was it? i've no idea. i have no evidence to suggest that russia didn't do it. but i would like evidence as laura just said to support these very serious accusations. but as laura said, in cyber warfare, that is harder to do but the black energy malware was traced back to the russian military? whether it was or wasn't, i'm not a computer expert, but i have read views of computer experts who disagreed with that. but as laura suggested, on the balance of probabilities, is that how we lob accusations at russia, at the kremlin, at the country? i don't think that's the right way to go about it. do you think then that the british government has been reckless itself then in making that public accusation today? absolutely. i
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think the british government in particular has been accusing russia over the years of the most ridiculous things like russia is a threat to nato, a country that spends 10% of the nato budget. edward lucas, it plays into the idea that we think of russia in a cold war context, a pariah and so—so, but as dmitry sirs and laura said, there isn't a bout of evidence, it is about probability? not necessarily, no. estonia had its power crippled and a senior executives admitted that it was guys in his office that had carried it out. admittedly, it was a fairly crude attack. it was a psychological attack as wetnm was, and putin has made jokes about attacks on the american system, saying if it wasn't as it was somebody like us. you have to be careful. the contributor in the film
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was saying that even discussing this is the destabilising thing the attacker once in setting this off. is this about flexing muscles? as dmitry rightly pointed out, russia is a lot weaker than the west when the west is united. russia's main aim is to play divide and rule and use what in the jargon is called asymmetric weapons, weapons that a weak country can use quite successfully against the strong one and cyber is a good example of that. laura, on the psychological impact of this, why would vladimir putin want to be seen or even be talked about as the aggressor? putin has two goals here and his primary audience is internal, it's domestic.
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he has two figure out how to keep popularity and keep his position. and part of that requires showing russia's strength. if russia can chip away at western alliances, as ed is referring to, if it can chip away at the sense that the west is the place where freedom of speech and freedom of press have created these liberal democracies that are a model, then putin wins internally. and putin is very aware that the end of the soviet union in his mind is based on the attraction of the west and in his mind, the false attraction of the west. the more he's able to chip away at what the west from a russian population the more his strength will be in showing russia's ability to go toe to toe with the west. whether that is in the last elections, though there is a lot of evidence that the russian military were behind that, this is how putin is able to show his people
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is, who else has to gain from an attack on ukraine? this is speculative, but it's those that undermined the two—way relationship between europe and russia, between the west and russia. edward, we are not talking about clean hands when it comes to america. if russia is that the game, others are at the game,
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americans and the chinese? yes, all countries engage in espionage and certainly america kl “f-et-fzé-t 1, ;/ v : .;,—_—:,,—,—m— .. . . and we don't really have an answel donald trump said today that "no child should be in danger
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in an american school." so why was the 19—year—old, nikolas cruz, who had links with a white supremicist group and had been flagged to the fbi as a potential risk, able to get into the school which had expelled him, and allegedly massacre 17 people with an assault weapon? the us president said today that "we are committed to working with local leaders to tackle the difficult issue of mental health", reminding people that in february last year donald trump signed a law revoking an obama era regulatory initiative that made it harder for people with a mental illness to buy a gun. the parkland school shooting in florida is the 18th incident this year at an american school where a weapon has been discharged. in the era of mobile phone technology, students recorded the aftermath of the deadly shooting at the school in an affluent town of 30,000 an hourfrom miami. police, police. put your phones away. in a cruel twist, the school
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was reportedly planning an active shooter drill in just a few weeks... across the us television networks, since columbine and sandy hook, school shootings have made far too many headlines. the president made his early response on twitter. so many signs that the florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behaviour. later, donald trump made a television appeal directly to children in america but made no mention of guns. to every parent, teacher and child who is hurting so badly, we are here for you, whatever you need, whatever we can do to ease your pain. we are alljoined together as one american family and your suffering is our burden also.
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the news that the fbi were warned that orphan nikolas cruz could be dangerous, the fact that he was a member of a white nationalist group and that apparently he was not allowed on campus wearing a backpack all point to a lack of any co—ordinated investigation into a clearly disturbed individual. law enforcement agents say that cruz bought a semiautomatic assault weapon legally a year ago. aris—style weapons have been used in several school massacres. they're the consumer version of the m—i6 and there are 8 million of them in american hands, but will there be any appetite in the white house to outlaw the weapon that has killed so many schoolchildren? rather than debate the rights and wrongs of us gun laws again, instead, we're going to talk to two people intimately and directly involved in two prior mass shootings. joining me from denver is tom mauser, the father of a victim of the 1999 columbine massacre, and in blacksburg the author lucinda roy, who is a professor at virginia tech university where she taught the gunman responsible for the 2007 shooting.
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thank you both very much forjoining us tonight. first of all, tom mauser, i imagine every day is a hard day that doesn't make it worse when you are reminded by yet another shooting in a school? absolutely. it takes you back to that day and you can just imagine what those parents are going through because you went through it as well. and when you look at the profile of nikolas cruz, orphaned, i gather he recently lost his mother. disruptive, expelled from school, apparently not a road in the area and even backpack, on the youtube
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saying he wanted to be a professional school shooter. it must break your heart that nothing was able to be done to stop him? that is right. he fits the profile. this is the profile of someone who is troubled and dangerous and yet we did nothing about it. what do you think is the problem, a lack of coordination, a lack of clear, a lack of concern about what has happened previously in order to try to make sure it doesn't happen again? yeah, i think there is a lack of coordination, in some cases between the police and the schools and other organisations that need to know what is going on. and is also a sense of there is nothing we can do it anyway. because it could affect his rights. and as a result we are paralysed and we have law enforcement to feel there is not much they can do about cases like this, to stop it but that's not true. killed, i wonder what parents of columbine did to make sure it
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never happened again and i wonder if eventually it just fell on deaf ears? i think some changes were made, certainly law enforcement learned they had to go into the schools against an active shooter, not just wait outside like they did at columbine. schools are more prepared for these attacks. but in terms of stopping them and keeping guns away from people who make these attacks, no, very little has been done. yet we have president trump speaking directly to the children of america saying he will make school safe but no talk of guns. the white house which presumably does not want to change the right to bear arms. that's right. the president made it into that office with a lot of support from the national rifle association. he is not going to speak badly about guns and so long as we are not speaking of guns as part of this
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issue we won't get anywhere. thank you very much... sorry, i want to turn it to lucinda roy. you taught the man who went on to kill 32 people at virginia tech, seung—hui cho. you taught him and you had fears and worries, what happened? i reported the student to a number of different entities at the university including law enforcement and dean of students and so on because i knew it was very difficult for there to be consensus about what needs to be done so i always tried to make sure i got as many people involved as possible. but take us through why you were so concerned about the student. this was a student who was 23, 22 years old, he had not spoken much since he was two years old. he suffered from something called
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selective mutism which meant he did not speak out loud often in social situations but he also seemed very angry, and he wrote an angry poem about class and i did not think it was safe to leave him in the class. the only option i had was to try to work with myself which is what i did. but things have changed that time. for the most part you can get help for students but the trouble is you can still only get it for a couple of days off them and then they can come back to the classroom because there is not enough support for mental health and not enough funds for it. so unless we try to look at that as well as the gun issue we will still be in trouble. i can see the tom mauser is nodding in agreement with you. you have a situation lucinda roy where you have a student who kills 32 people and the drama and the whole college must be horrific, yet i imagine
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if you debate the right to have a gun and number of students in the university would still say we believe it is the american way and part of identity, so you have that terrible dilemma? many of the students did lobby for guns and wanted to have the right to bring guns to campus so they could defend themselves. in fact to the nra tries to stoke that kind of thing as much as possible. it can be difficult to try to get some communication through the noise and make sure people understand as long as america is in denial it will keep slaughtering its children which is exactly what is happening. what happens with each one, after columbine happened, after sandy hook, everybody says this will be the tipping point, this will be the one which kick—starts a change in american culture and it never happens. i wonder if you think there might be a generational change, that some of the children, social media as well, seeing these terrible massacres, might adopt a different attitude going forward, what do you think? that is true, i go around
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the country talking about troubled students and campus safety and one thing i have understood is that this is the first lockdown generation. it's so ridiculous that adults still think they cannot talk with young people about this because young people live it every day and they are incredibly brave and they know something needs to be done because they are living in classes that are terrorist sites so we have to do something. what is inspiring is to see how many young people are coming forward to make sure things will change. let me put that to you tom do you notice a sea change in the younger generation, the generation wench went to the horror of columbine? i do see that, especially young people are asking and should be asking is this the kind of world i want to live in?
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the gun lobby in america is seeing the only way to be safest to have more guns, teachers with guns, people carrying concealed weapons, openly carrying weapons, it's the only way to be safe. i think they are asking themselves that question, is this the country we want to live in? thank you both very much. later in the programme we preview akram khan's final solo performance. this soldier is formerly a dancer. that's the character i'm playing. he's presenting a classical recital, indian classical dance recital. but first, we're constantly bombarded with headlines
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about what does or doesn't cause cancer. in the last year alone we've been told that: hot tea — causes cancer. bacon — causes cancer. potatoes — prevent cancer. flip flops — cause cancer. and coffee and alcohol both prevent and cause cancer the latest of these warnings came today. ‘ultra' or highly—processed foods like mass—produced breads, chocolate bars, sweets, fizzy drinks, chicken nuggets and instant soups and noodles are pushing up cancer rates, we were told. what are we to make of all this? are we to heed the warnings, or take it all with a pinch of salt? joining me now in the studio is deborah ashby, the incoming president of the royal statistical
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society and head of the school of public health at imperial college london. thank you forjoining us, what do you think when you see those headlines? my heart sank because i thought here is another good study that we need being completely overinterpreted. but you think we need good studies and there were nuggets in that study, not chicken nuggets obviously? we absolutely need studies because it's reasonable to try to explore what about our diet might lead to cancers are heart disease or anything else. we cannot do experiments where we get people to do one rather than the other so we collect data on people, observe what they are doing. it's the best way we've got to get a handle on it. but to then take that and say that causes cancer you should stop eating that causes panic or people say i don't believe any of it. that is the danger. i wonder if you can take that right back to say, you cannot say something causes cancer, but when you look at tobacco, was that moment when you finally were able to break through? that is a good example because it
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first observed that lung cancer rates were going up and people started to say what was it about them, what other changes which are going on? there was an observational study of doctors, looking at their smoking habits and we began to observe that tobacco was linked to cancer. it took a long time to follow that through and clearly understand the size of the problem, let alone burrow down and see which chemicals are causing it. it takes decades to go from that first observation to get the truth. there are things is not causing cancer then causing the diseases which lead to other things, transfats and sugars for example. it's not that the jury is out on sugar, sugar isjust bad, is that right?|j don't know that evidence terribly well myself but there are observational studies and sugar has benefits in some ways, but it is
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probably fairly empty but it is the observational studies which help us burrow down. for something like smoking and cancer it's a huge effect so we can see it early and other things were looking at are relatively subtle and that is why it takes longer. it is interesting, so much work done in cancer research and i wonder if you would ever again with anything be able to have a moment like the tobacco moment? i think on that there was not one moment where it suddenly fell into place. people looked at it and looked at the studies, people who smoke may also drink, how do you unpick which one of those it is? i think it's a slower crawl of evidence, each study is a brick in the wall and it's not one moment where you think a—ha! so if you are a lay
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person and not able to read the statistical data, what are you to believe and what did you make of it and what are you to do? first thing i think look beyond the headlines. the headlines are often a brief snippet to get you to read it and sometimes they over—egg it. the first thing is read, a lot of the journalism today has been good, talking about the caveats. if you're not sure what to do go to a reputable source — charities, cancer research uk, nhs advice gives good stuff. they will have looked that the sum total of the evidence and thought about it and thought what do we know and what is the best advice? but do not react sharply to one study. thank you very much indeed. akram khan is an award—winning choreographer and dancer, one of the most exciting talents working in the dance world today. newsnight‘s had privileged access to his latest show, xenos which gets its world premiere in athens next week. in may it will have its british equivalent at london's sadlers wells. xenos is a milestone for akram khan
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— he'll retire from full length solo performing after it. with the work still in development, he gave katie razzall his insights into the creative process and much more. we are still developing material. and the way i create sometimes is i create a whole load of crap and within that, there's some good stuff, but you still create it and then you start to replace the crap with good stuff. so... otherwise you don't begin anywhere. let's get the structure and at least we have some kind of spine, some kind ofjourney that goes from a to z and then we flesh out the dance. and that's what you're doing now? that's what we're doing now. akram khan's methods
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are worth a listen. for almost two decades, this dancer and choreographer has created some of this country's most imaginative works. newsnight had early sight of his latest, xenos, as it was evolving in a rehearsal space in central london. it will be khan's last ever full—length solo performance. the heart of xenos is really following this story of this indian soldier who fought for the brits. it's the very early scene before he gets taken into war. this soldier is formally a dancer and that's the character i'm playing and he is presenting a classical recital, indian classical dance recital. a million men from britain's colonies fought in world war i and in this centenary year, khan is honouring their often forgotten stories. xenos also feels a political work,
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which speaks to his view of britain now. xenos is a greek word which means stranger or foreigner and of course it then expands into xenophobia, the word xenophobia. it's a symptom that was there before the first world war. it was the same symptom before the second world war. and that symptom's returned. and it's quite frightening, to be honest with you, and so i'm in a place where i wanted to explore what i'm feeling, what a stranger feels like. you know, i was born and brought up in london. i never really felt that much a foreigner or a stranger. i somehow felt more of a foreigner in bangladesh when i used to return back for wedding parties or somebody‘s birth
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or somebody‘s death. my parents would take me back and i felt very british, somehow. and here, there was a period during the 80s and 90s when i was working at my dad's restaurant as a waiter and we faced some racism. i feel very... i feel very brown right now. i never thought about colour before. is that because of direct things that have happened to you or is it a feeling about a changing sense of our country? i think it's not a direct feeling to me, towards me, but it's this feeling of being brown is really more about the way the country's being led, our country's being led. with brexit. it's all building walls again. the reason for why perhaps consciously xenos came about, this piece, was because of my reaction to what is happening. akram khan's a storyteller at heart, his chosen vehicle a unique blend
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of contemporary and indian dance. do you even know what it is to be a man? he won an olivier award for this work, desh, an exploration of his ancestral homeland in bangladesh and his relationship with his father. his show dust graced glastonbury‘s pyramid stage and khan himself performed at the olympic opening ceremony with emile sande. pushing dance into new realms, he collaborated with artist anish kapoor for this show cash and others. the likes of dancer sylvie guillem, actressjuliette binoche and sculptor anthony gormley have also joined forces with khan. at the age of 43, the physical rigours of dancing are taking their toll but when he started out, it was the only way he could express himself.
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i was always afraid of talking because i grew up in a society, a bangladeshi community, that was highly driven in an academic sense. they all turned out, all my friends turned out to be doctors, dentists forsome reason, lawyers, engineers. i couldn't fit into my community in that way because i felt that whenever i spoke, it would just sounds silly. i won a competition at school, a disco competition, and it was the first time that people in my class, the students in my class knew my name. and people seemed to listen and suddenly people went, oh, well done for winning the competition. i saw you doing michaeljackson or 5-star. do you feel you're at that stage? this is your last full—length solo performance. i'm looking downhill now, absolutely. physically? physically it's taken its toll, and so i'm very emotional
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about this transition. i think most dancers would be. i'm sure they are. is it sadness or more complicated than that? i think it's much more complex than that because this is, you know, my body's been my voice and my strength. that's the way i communicate. and you can see xenos performed at sadlers wells from february 21st. now, we want you to sleep well tonight but tomorrow's headlines are not going to help with that. if those two went as bad as they could get, on the front page of the times, shampoo is as bad a health risk as exhaust fumes. that's all for this evening —
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but before we go, it's been 20 years since the angel of the north first spread its wings over gateshead. given its iconic status now, it's easy to forget that at the time of its construction, it wasn't without its troubles — engineering difficulties and some local opposition. we thought it was as good a reason as any to show sir anthony gormley‘s steel totem. good night. the weather is looking pretty cold out there and clear, temperatures dipping away, in for a frost first thing in the morning. the good news is, come friday, the sunny symbol, it will be a nice and sunny day. lethebrook at the satellite. clear skies across most of the uk, the city lights there, light pollution, if you like. london, birmingham, manchester and then you have the clouds across scotland and here we have some snow clouds, over the next 24- 48 have some snow clouds, over the next 2a— 48 hours they have some snow clouds, over the next 24— 48 hours they could be a bit of
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snow across the hills and there might be one or two flurries across other parts of the country. towns and cities typically around —1, —2 degrees even in plymouth they are barely above freezing. this is fridays weather map. ‘s is a high—pressure, that means the closer you are, the better the weather will be. most areas of england and wales should have a fine day, but a lot of cloud out there just to the west of ireland and that is flowing in on this south—westerly wind. more clout and brain on friday for the western isles for the vast majority of the uki isles for the vast majority of the uk i think we in for a fine day. the skies will turn hazy during the day on friday. let's have a look at the forecast the following night. tomorrow night. friday night into saturday, if you are out on friday night expect a lot of cloud and passing rain across western areas, probably some mountain snow across the north of england, scotland too.
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the coldest of the weather friday night into saturday will be across the south—east and east anglia. norwich, places like that. cold and crisp. weather fronts out there on the atlantic will be heading our way, but not for saturday, at least the majority of the uk. some clouds and wintry showers around moving into scotland but for most of us, out of the two days, saturday is actually a fine day. you can see behind me there are is a lot of cloud heading our way. range of sunday. for sunday, let's call it a cloudy, very overcast day. outbreaks of rain here and therefore and northern ireland. this eastern part should stay dry and the two bridges will get up to a i mixed lei? i'm mariko oi in singapore. the headlines: nikolas cruz, the 19—year old accused of killing
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17 people at his former high school, appears at court in florida. south africa's new president cyril ramaphosa vows to fight corruption after being sworn in. i'm ben bland, in london. also in the programme: we take a look at some of the local dishes being enjoyed at the winter olympics. and xin nian kuai le. happy lunar new year. chinese people around the world celebrate the spring festival. live from our studios in singapore and london. this is bbc
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